Individual 64962's submission
CAN-ASC-2.4 – Wayfinding and Signage
Feedback items
Item id
1774126348924_211
Heading id
heading-34
What kind of suggestion are you making?
General comments on the overall standard or a section such as things that are missing
What should we change?
Discuss selecting fixtures that do not flicker, or have LED, which can cause discomfort to some users.
What should we change it to?
"Select fixtures that do not flicker, or have LED, which can cause discomfort to some users." (I have limited knowledge in this area, but do have living experience with sensitivity to many fixtures.)
Why should we change it?
Important to alert readers to this being an impactful feature on many users.
Heading text
10.1.4.2 Indoor light fixtures
Heading number portion
10.1.4.2
Item id
1774126619205_319
Heading id
s10.2.1
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
"meet the minimum luminance contrast values as those in Table 1 (for requirements for glossy or shiny materials see Clause 10.2.2 and Table 2)." currently has "1" and "2" text with hyperlink to 'Table 1' and 'Table 2'
What should we change it to?
Add hyperlink to "Table 1" and "Table 2", rather than just "1" and "2".
Why should we change it?
If readers are using screen reading programs and scanning through by links, they will hear "1" and "2" which has less meaning than "Table 1" and "Table 2".
This may occur in other instances in this document, but is only noted here.
Heading text
10.2.1 General requirements
Heading number portion
10.2.1
Item id
1774126766909_753
Heading id
s10.2.1
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
These are minimum contrast values, higher values are often used to improve the lighting conditions such as when the lighting conditions may at times be low.
What should we change it to?
These are minimum contrast values. Higher values are often used to improve the lighting conditions such as when the lighting conditions may at times be low.
Why should we change it?
By changing to two separate sentences, we very clearly state the minimum value, then go on in the next sentence to discuss higher values. More clear language and less cognitive load.
Heading text
10.2.1 General requirements
Heading number portion
10.2.1
Item id
1774127317783_13
Heading id
s11.1
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
provide supportive measures in combinations, i.e., audible and tactile; audible and visual;
What should we change it to?
provide supportive measures in combinations, (e.g., audible and tactile; audible and visual);
Why should we change it?
Careful of "i.e." versus "e.g." In most cases, it should be "e.g." which means 'some examples' whereas "e.g." means 'in other words', to clarify or rephrase a statement. There may be other instances in this document.
Heading text
11.1 General
Heading number portion
11.1
Item id
1774127395600_639
Heading id
heading-65
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
have a luminance-contrast of at least 50 % with the surrounding surface;
What should we change it to?
have a luminance-contrast of at least 50% with the surrounding surface;
Why should we change it?
No space before percentage sign, consistent with other instances in this document.
Heading text
11.4.3.2 Luminance contrast
Heading number portion
11.4.3.2
Item id
1774127474583_540
Heading id
s0
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
At least 30 % of these technical experts are people with disabilities and lived experience and 30% are from equity seeking groups including 2SLGBTQI+, indigenous peoples, women and visible minorities.
What should we change it to?
At least 30% of these technical experts are people with disabilities and lived experience and 30% are from equity seeking groups including 2SLGBTQI+, indigenous peoples, women and visible minorities.
Why should we change it?
No space before percentage sign, consistent with other instances in this document.
Heading text
1. Accessibility Standards Canada: About us
Heading number portion
1.
Item id
1774127817721_594
Heading id
heading-68
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Technical such as dimensions or application of the standard
What should we change?
Note 1: In indoor settings with highly smooth surfaces, a height of at least 4 mm is recommended.
What should we change it to?
Note 1: In indoor settings with highly smooth surfaces, a height of at least 5 mm is recommended.
Why should we change it?
11.4.3.3.2 states that "Flat-topped elongated bars shall have a height between 4 mm and 5 mm." If note 1 is providing a recommended height for indoor settings with highly smooth surfaces, I would expect a recommended height that is higher than the minimum (which is 4 mm). Should this be higher? If not, why mention that we should have a recommended height that is the minimum?
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11.4.3.3.2 Height of bars
Heading number portion
11.4.3.3.2
Item id
1774127914496_383
Heading id
s11.4.3.3.4
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
A 17 mm top width is considered the most effective dimension for individuals to detect and differentiate using the soles of their shoes.
What should we change it to?
A 17 mm top width is considered the most effective dimension for individuals to detect and differentiate through the soles of their shoes.
Why should we change it?
Change "using" to "through." People don't use the soles of their shoes to detect, they use their feet through their soles. There is another instance of this, but it does say "through".
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11.4.3.3.4 Bar width
Heading number portion
11.4.3.3.4
Item id
1774128075393_950
Heading id
heading-54
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
Except when the location is protected by a guard complying with clause 6.16.4 of CAN-ASC-2.1 (draft), an attention indicator shall be at the following locations:
What should we change it to?
Except when the location is protected by a guard complying with Clause 6.16.4 of CAN-ASC-2.1 (draft), an attention indicator shall be at the following locations:
Why should we change it?
Capitalize "Clause", consistent with other instances in the document.
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11.4.2.2 Location
Heading number portion
11.4.2.2
Item id
1774128137346_646
Heading id
s12.1
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
have all audible and visual signs, including those provided for indoor or outdoor mapping tested by people who will use them to confirm usability and clarity; and
What should we change it to?
have all audible and visual signs, including those provided for indoor or outdoor mapping, tested by people who will use them to confirm usability and clarity; and
Why should we change it?
Add a comma after "mapping", since this is effectively a parenthetical addition to the phrase “have signs ... tested”
Heading text
12.1 General
Heading number portion
12.1
Item id
1774128248826_157
Heading id
s0
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
people with disabilities
What should we change it to?
persons with disabilities
Why should we change it?
Consider consistency of “people with disabilities” vs “persons with disabilities.” In most cases "persons with disabilities" will work gramatically, and tends to be more common and reflective of inclusive language than "people with disabilities."
Heading text
1. Accessibility Standards Canada: About us
Heading number portion
1.
Item id
1774128358178_248
Heading id
s12.2.2
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
Examples of Identification signs include signage for buildings, washrooms, egress, stairwells, doorways, or offices.
What should we change it to?
Examples of identification signs include signage for buildings, washrooms, egress, stairwells, doorways, or offices.
Why should we change it?
"identification" does not need to be capitalized in this context, and lowercase is consistent with 12.2.1 "Examples of orientation signs include..."
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12.2.2 Identification signs
Heading number portion
12.2.2
Item id
1774128424482_150
Heading id
s12.2.1
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
Examples specific to outdoor environments trailhead orientation panels, park entrance directories
What should we change it to?
Examples specific to outdoor environments include trailhead orientation panels, park entrance directories
Why should we change it?
Missing word "include", consistent with sentence structure in previous note "Examples of orientation signs include maps, sketches,..."
Heading text
12.2.1 Orientation Signs
Heading number portion
12.2.1
Item id
1774128574619_190
Heading id
s12.2.3
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
Note 1: Examples of prohibition signs include no entry sign, no stopping sign, no smoking sign, no open fires, no off-leash pets, no swimming.
Note 2: Examples of mandatory signs include dismount bikes sign, keep right sign, keep clear sign, stay on marked trail.
What should we change it to?
Note 1: Examples of prohibition signs include no entry signs, no stopping signs, no smoking signs, no open fires, no off-leash pets, no swimming.
Note 2: Examples of mandatory signs include dismount bikes signs, keep right signs, keep clear signs, stay on marked trail.
Why should we change it?
Pluralize signs, for grammatical consistency and consistency with examples listed in 12.2.2 (e.g., "Examples specific to outdoor environments campsite number signs, cabin or yurt identifiers, accessible beach or picnic shelter identification signs."
However, do consider 12.2.4 that has singular. Either way, ensure consistency of singular or plural for sign(s) in these adjacent sections.
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12.2.3 Regulatory signs
Heading number portion
12.2.3
Item id
1774128632739_481
Heading id
s12.2.3
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
Regulatory signs that denote forbidden actions (Prohibition Signs), or a mandatory action (Mandatory Signs).
What should we change it to?
Regulatory signs that denote forbidden actions (Prohibition Signs), or a mandatory actions (Mandatory Signs).
Why should we change it?
Consistency of "forbidden actions" and "mandatory actions"
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12.2.3 Regulatory signs
Heading number portion
12.2.3
Item id
1774128988388_977
Heading id
s12.2.4
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
Note 2: Examples specific to outdoor environments wildlife warnings (e.g., bear in area), steep slope or falling rock alerts, trail closure due to flooding or storm damage.
What should we change it to?
Note 2: Examples include specific to outdoor environments wildlife warnings (e.g., bear in area), steep slope or falling rock alerts, trail closure due to flooding or storm damage.
Why should we change it?
Add "include"
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12.2.4 Warning and danger signs
Heading number portion
12.2.4
Item id
1774129060652_192
Heading id
s12.2.7
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
Refer to other sign types for signs that are not exclusively designed for motorists in a parking facility, such as signage designed for pedestrians.
What should we change it to?
(Add references to applicable sections of this document.)
Why should we change it?
Is this telling us to consider guidelines under a different section, and apply them to content in 12.2.7? If so, reference by number the section(s) and include the section name(s).
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12.2.7 Parking Signs
Heading number portion
12.2.7
Item id
1774129093388_651
Heading id
s12.2.8
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
identification signs
What should we change it to?
identification signs;
Why should we change it?
add semicolon after list item
Heading text
12.2.8 Requirements for different types of signage
Heading number portion
12.2.8
Item id
1774129208036_142
Heading id
s12.2.8
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
i. not create an obstruction within the path of travel;
ii. when installed outdoors, be placed in a location that does not intrude into the path of travel; and
What should we change it to?
(see below)
Why should we change it?
These seem redundant. Are they saying something different? If so, suggest revising for clarity.
Heading text
12.2.8 Requirements for different types of signage
Heading number portion
12.2.8
Item id
1774129323605_282
Heading id
s12.2.8
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Technical such as dimensions or application of the standard
What should we change?
at least 1000 mm long
What should we change it to?
"at least 1000 mm high"
or
"at least 1000 mm wide"
Why should we change it?
Is this the width or height of the painted symbol. The term “long” is unclear here.
Heading text
12.2.8 Requirements for different types of signage
Heading number portion
12.2.8
Item id
1774129363957_871
Heading id
s12.2.8
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
for digital or electronic signage ensure compliance with Clause 12.11,
What should we change it to?
for digital or electronic signage, ensure compliance with Clause 12.11,
Why should we change it?
Add comma for clarity.
Heading text
12.2.8 Requirements for different types of signage
Heading number portion
12.2.8
Item id
1774129444205_818
Heading id
s12.2.9
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
Trailhead signs in outdoor spaces shall be provided at the start of trails and wherever trail conditions change significantly and include:
What should we change it to?
Trailhead signs in outdoor spaces shall be provided at the start of trails and wherever trail conditions change significantly. They shall include:
Why should we change it?
Sentence is wordy and hard to read. Suggest separating into two sentences.
Heading text
12.2.9 Signs for outdoor spaces
Heading number portion
12.2.9
Item id
1774129510406_173
Heading id
s12.3
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
include alternative communication methods, i.e., an audible technology, braille booklet or similar alternate format where there is an established need.
What should we change it to?
include alternative communication methods, (e.g., an audible technology, braille booklet or similar alternate format where there is an established need).
Why should we change it?
Add parentheses for example. Use "e.g." rather than "i.e."
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12.3 Quality of information
Heading number portion
12.3
Item id
1774129701790_988
Heading id
s12.3
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
Motion sensors or QR codes that trigger an audio recording of the information and other technologies that automatically read aloud text are examples of valid options that may be used.
What should we change it to?
Valid options that may be used include motion sensors or QR codes that trigger an audio recording of the information, and other technologies that automatically read aloud text.
Why should we change it?
Long sentence is hard to read and not in plain language. Start by telling the reader what these things are (the 'valid options') then go on to list them, rather than stating that they are valid options at the end.
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12.3 Quality of information
Heading number portion
12.3
Item id
1774129857527_785
Heading id
s12.6.1
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Technical such as dimensions or application of the standard
What should we change?
for signs meant to be read looking down (i.e., mounted on a standalone pole either parallel or angled to the ground), be located between 730 mm to 860 mm above the ground to allow viewing from a seated position;
What should we change it to?
for signs meant to be read looking down (i.e., mounted on a standalone pole either parallel or angled to the ground), be located between with the bottom edge 730 mm to 860 mm above the ground to allow viewing from a seated position;
Why should we change it?
I imagine this is an angled, but generally horizontal sign. Could be helpful to indicate which part of the sign is measured between 730 mm and 860 mm.
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12.6.1 Location of signs
Heading number portion
12.6.1
Item id
1774129985879_619
Heading id
s12.6.1
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Technical such as dimensions or application of the standard
What should we change?
be mounted on the exterior wall beside the entrance door, where feasible.
What should we change it to?
be mounted on the exterior wall beside latch edge of the entrance door, where feasible.
Why should we change it?
Specify latch edge, consistent with CSA B651:23 4.6.6.4 a)
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12.6.1 Location of signs
Heading number portion
12.6.1
Item id
1774130209041_346
Heading id
s12.7.2
What kind of suggestion are you making?
General comments on the overall standard or a section such as things that are missing
What should we change?
add mounting height
What should we change it to?
add mounting height
Why should we change it?
I would consider mounting height to be part of location. Even if it is also located elsewhere, readers may come to here to find the height. Could include a reference to the reference (elsewhere) to mounting height, but should also list it here.
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12.7.2 Tactile signs at doors—location and mounting
Heading number portion
12.7.2
Item id
1774130460073_286
Heading id
s12.6.1
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
Change the order of sections a-k.
What should we change it to?
Start with the most prevalent, pertinent information first, such as d-e-c-a-... then place b (outdoor toilet facilities) later.
Why should we change it?
Following plain language principles, put the most important information first. The first time I read this section, I saw 'signs meant to be read looking down' followed by 'for outdoor toilet facilities' and I felt like these were reasonably niche and uncommon applications and didn't expect to find more broad-reaching specs such as general mounting height, etc.
Heading text
12.6.1 Location of signs
Heading number portion
12.6.1
Item id
1774130694761_650
Heading id
s12.6.1
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Technical such as dimensions or application of the standard
What should we change?
e. be installed at a height of 1150 mm to 1250 mm above the floor for those required to include tactile and braille elements
What should we change it to?
Specify either centreline or bottom edge, check numbers (see below).
Why should we change it?
CSA B651:23 4.6.6.4 e) states that tactile signs “be mounted with the horizontal centreline 1500±25m from the floor. "
This height appears to be different, and suggest specifying whether this measurement is horizontal centreline or bottom edge of sign.
Heading text
12.6.1 Location of signs
Heading number portion
12.6.1
Item id
1774130796794_577
Heading id
s12.6.1
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
d. be located 1500 mm +/- 50 mm from the floor when they are visual and do not contain tactile or braille elements;
e. be installed at a height of 1150 mm to 1250 mm above the floor for those required to include tactile and braille elements
What should we change it to?
d. be located 1500 mm +/- 50 mm from the floor when they are visual and do not contain tactile or braille elements;
e. be installed at a height of 1150 mm to 1250 mm above the floor for those containing tactile and braille elements
Why should we change it?
One mentions “when they are visual and do not contain tactile or braille elements.” The other mentions “...for those required to include tactile and braille elements.” Suggest changing the second to “...for those containing...”
Heading text
12.6.1 Location of signs
Heading number portion
12.6.1
Item id
1774130844786_636
Heading id
s12.6.2
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
2,050 mm
What should we change it to?
2050 mm
Why should we change it?
Remove comma within number, consistent with other larger numbers in this document.
Heading text
12.6.2 Overhead signs
Heading number portion
12.6.2
Item id
1774131021515_847
Heading id
s12.6.2
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Technical such as dimensions or application of the standard
What should we change?
c. be mounted at consistent locations throughout the building and be viewable from a comfortable viewing distance; and
What should we change it to?
c. be mounted at consistent locations throughout the building and be viewable from a comfortable viewing distance (with font size in accordance with 12.4 n) v) ; and
Why should we change it?
Emphasize that font size is part of the sign being viewable from a comfortable viewing distance, and point people to reference within the document.
Heading text
12.6.2 Overhead signs
Heading number portion
12.6.2
Item id
1774131153188_386
Heading id
s12.6.3
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Technical such as dimensions or application of the standard
What should we change?
Floor numbers should be displayed on each level at both the top and bottom of staircases, as well as on handrails.
What should we change it to?
Suggest providing details on placement. For example, BLC guidelines indicate “Placement on handrails: Only place braille on handrails if the floor surface is flat to allow for safe standing while reading. This means handrails on stairs should have extensions where braille and tactile print can be placed. It is recommended that the handrail extensions should be at least 300mm in length on both ends of the staircase.”
Why should we change it?
If signs are near doors, point people to where to read the specs for this. If readers are not aware that there are specifications on where to place on handrails (BLC), then they may place them in an unsafe location.
Heading text
12.6.3 Stairs
Heading number portion
12.6.3
Item id
1774131247259_6
Heading id
s12.6.3
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Technical such as dimensions or application of the standard
What should we change?
Information signs should be placed in stairwells to identify all entry and exit points.
What should we change it to?
Specify where to place signs.
Why should we change it?
If specific locations, or reference to requirements within the document, are not in this section, users may not consider the best placement of these signs.
Heading text
12.6.3 Stairs
Heading number portion
12.6.3
Item id
1774131314532_417
Heading id
s12.7.1
What kind of suggestion are you making?
General comments on the overall standard or a section such as things that are missing
What should we change?
b. be approachable within 100 mm without encountering protruding objects or standing within a door swing;
What should we change it to?
Move to 12.7.2 or 12.7.3 (see below)
Why should we change it?
This seems to be more of a placement feature, rather than feature of the sign itself. Suggest moving it to 12.7.2 and/or 12.7.3
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12.7.1 Tactile sign design and build elements
Heading number portion
12.7.1
Item id
1774131359868_899
Heading id
s12.7.4
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
ranging from 135 percent to a maximum of 170 percent of
What should we change it to?
ranging from 135 % to a maximum of 170 % of
Why should we change it?
Change “percent” to “%” for consistency within document.
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12.7.4 Tactile characters
Heading number portion
12.7.4
Item id
1774131416516_669
Heading id
s12.8
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Technical such as dimensions or application of the standard
What should we change?
Poor material can lead to dots wearing off, changing the letters and affecting the meaning of the braille message.
What should we change it to?
Poor material can lead to dots wearing off, changing the characters and affecting the meaning of the braille message.
Why should we change it?
Change “letters” to “characters.” While each braille cell may contain an individual letter, it is more accurately called a “character,” especially if numbers or contracted braille are involved.
Heading text
12.8 Braille
Heading number portion
12.8
Item id
1774131492972_34
Heading id
s12.9
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
1. the field to have a minimum height of 150 mm and be raised 0.8 mm – 1.5 mm from the surrounding surface; and
2. the symbol positioned on the field at 0.8-1.5 mm from the surface of the field;
What should we change it to?
1. the field to have a minimum height of 150 mm and be raised 0.8 mm – 1.5 mm from the surrounding surface; and
2. the symbol positioned on the field at 0.8 mm – 1.5 mm from the surface of the field;
Why should we change it?
Consistency of "mm" and hyphen spacing.
Heading text
12.9 Pictograms and graphical symbols
Heading number portion
12.9
Item id
1774131535324_613
Heading id
s12.10.5
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
if the doors are open or closed
What should we change it to?
if the doors are opening or closing
Why should we change it?
Is it more accurate to say “if the doors are opening or closing” as it is the action of the door moving that is pertinent to the user, than a static state?
Heading text
12.10.5 Elevators
Heading number portion
12.10.5
Item id
1774131592668_840
Heading id
s12.11.1
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Technical such as dimensions or application of the standard
What should we change?
b. be tested by people with various abilities to find the right amount of time needed
What should we change it to?
Add ideal times (see below)
Why should we change it?
This is not very specific. Recommend referencing 12.11.7 b) that provides best viewing times.
Heading text
12.11.1 General
Heading number portion
12.11.1
Item id
1774131658468_111
Heading id
s13.10
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
Location plans shall:
What should we change it to?
Maps shall:
Why should we change it?
Not sure about the use of the term “locations plans” here. The 13.1 introduction states that “A wide range of map types, including location plans, guide maps, and navigation maps.” Are location plans just one kind of map? If so, perhaps define it somewhere. If 13.10 refers to construction and maintenance of all maps, then rename to “Maps shall”
Heading text
13.10 Construction and maintenance
Heading number portion
13.10
Item id
1774131710021_207
Heading id
s13
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
The measurement of slip resistance for TWSIs has been evolving
What should we change it to?
The measurement of slip resistance for Tactile Walking Surface Indicators (TWSIs) has been evolving
Why should we change it?
Suggest providing the “Tactile Walking Surface Indicator” before TWSIs, since they haven’t been mentioned for a while in the document.
Heading text
14. Annex A: Slip resistance measurement (informative)
Heading number portion
14.
Item id
1774131843686_157
Heading id
s15.2
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
Some items are not in alphabetical order.
What should we change it to?
Ensure items are in alphabetical order.
Why should we change it?
Ease of reference for readers.
Heading text
15.2 Standards and Codes
Heading number portion
15.2
Item id
1774131879278_254
Heading id
s15.3
What kind of suggestion are you making?
Editorial such as spelling, grammar, formatting and accessibility
What should we change?
Some items are not in alphabetical order.
What should we change it to?
Ensure items are in alphabetical order.
Why should we change it?
Ease of reference for readers.
Heading text
15.3 Online Resources
Heading number portion
15.3
Submission ID
64962
Submitted by